this post was submitted on 04 Feb 2010
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sloppy_wade 14 points15 points 5 months ago[-]

I agree completely, i can see this being a huge twist at the end. I don't necessarily subscribe to the fact that either Jacob or Nemesis are good or bad exclusively, I think the way they act and their morals are different.

I always think back to how we, the audience used to always view the others as "bad" and the fact that they answered to Jacob making the notion of him being "good" a bit suspect. After all, Jacob allowed Locke to fall and be paralysed, and he allowed Sayid's wife to be killed by that bus...

zmobies 7 points8 points 5 months ago[-]

Yea he basically set Sayid up for his wife to be killed to get him back on the island.

oldtymelemonade 8 points9 points 5 months ago[-]

And if he didn't pay for the lunchbox, Kate might've gotten in trouble and that might have been the discipline she needed to not kill anyone... plus, she wouldn't have even HAD the lunchbox to bury with that guy she loved who became a doctor and got killed because of her.

And if he hadn't given Sawyer that pen, Sawyer wouldn't have ever finished the letter... and couldn't have carried it around all those years.

Jacob is a jerk!

blackwolf72 3 points4 points 5 months ago[-]

No one should buy ANYONE a New Kids on the Block lunchbox. Yes, THAT is evil.

TheColonel 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

It just occurred to me... what if the side reality is one in which Jacob didn't intervene in any way?

I mean, if he was some how disabled (say, at the bottom of the ocean), wouldn't that effectively nullify any effects he or the island would've had on their lives?

Or perhaps if Smoky/MIB/Flocke gets to go home like he wants, he gets to travel off island like Jacob apparently could.

Not saying any of that will pan out, but very interesting.

oldtymelemonade 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

It just occurred to me... what if the side reality is one in which Jacob didn't intervene in any way?

Then why would (say) Sawyer be on the plane... and how would Locke be alive if Jacob hadn't touched him after he fell from the window? (Unless Locke became paralyzed some other way in the alternate timeline.)

TheColonel 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

Well, that's just the thing. We don't know exactly what the circumstances surrounding any specifics of how they got there now.

I mean, didn't kill her father in this timeline. She killed a plumber or something. Boone didn't get Shannon to come back with him, hell... some people aren't even on the plane, and Desmond is there for some reason.

Fact is, we don't know what happened in this timeline at all, other than certain people took the flight, it didn't crash, and the island is on the bottom of the ocean.

It's been implied by the creators that it may not have even been the bomb responsible for putting the island at the bottom of the sea, although they're probably just dicking with us.

Cservantes 2 points3 points 5 months ago[-]

"God said to Abraham, 'kill me a son.' Abe said 'man you must be puttin me on'." highway 61

SmartAssery 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

"Is he able to prevent evil, but not willing? Then he is not benevolent."
I've always had a problem with this logic. Simply because an entity is able to prevent suffering and does not, does not make them evil.

Sometimes people would not be nearly as good or strong as they are unless they had suffered in their lives. To take away all pain and all suffering is to handicap the potential of a person - and potential is something I believe Lost has always dealt with.

userpjx 10 points11 points 5 months ago[-]

I agree that it's possibility. The Others are definitely huge jerks and if Jacob told them to be that way, then I wouldn't really rank him as a good guy. On the other hand, Smokey has killed tons of people and seems kind of selfish.

I'd say that both Jacob and Smokey are bad before I'd say that Smokey is good. They are both independent entities and not necessarily representatives of good and evil.

ozreddit 2 points3 points 5 months ago[-]

Black and White themes. I think it's akin to Jack and Sawyer. Jack trying to be good with his faults, Sawyer bad, but trying to be good.

master_of_unlocking 7 points8 points 5 months ago[-]

Think of it like the backgammon metaphor used in the first seasons. Who is the 'bad guy' in backgammon? No one. The black pieces aren't bad and the white pieces aren't good, they are simply opposed.

jleonardbc 3 points4 points 5 months ago[-]

Jacob has pretty explicitly been endorsing and representing free will, and the Man in Black has been endorsing and representing fate. Even if it's not a complete and utter victory, Jacob has to win...it's his destiny!

slamare247 5 points6 points 5 months ago[-]

Jacob stole the blessing from their father - seems petty and evil to me.

RommelTJ 3 points4 points 5 months ago[-]

I don't think he is good/bad. He is simply a guard of sorts. He (it?) kills people at will if he (it?) chooses they pose a threat to the island, but everybody else is left unharmed.

The question is why is he guarding the island? What's the big deal?

sven8705 5 points6 points 5 months ago[-]

He (it?) kills people at will if he (it?) ...

He did say that he is a who and not a what.

Fimbulfamb 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

And why was he bugged when he saw Jacob had brought a ship to the island?

dropkickninja 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

why kill mr echo?

naxon 6 points7 points 5 months ago[-]

The actor wanted to be written off the show. Mr. Echo was supposed to be the part that Locke is now.

SmartAssery 2 points3 points 5 months ago[-]

That makes me really sad, because I think he could have kicked ass in the role. AAA has had roles before where he can perfectly tap into that deep, menacing place that Terry O'Quin is in now. Not to say that he's bad in the role, but I feel Eko would have been a more effective vehicle for the Monster.

naxon 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

You want to know why he didn't want to be on the show any more? He didn't like Hawaii.

SmartAssery 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

I thought it was at first because he thought his character was too narrow, then soon after he became interested in the role, his parents both died so he had to return to London.

night_owl 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

Rousseau was written off because she didn't want to go to Hawaii for filming anymore as well.

For me that is hard to imagine. There are few places on earth I would rather be forced to spend a few months a year than Oahu.

LaserAss 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

Eko could have been killed off in a lot of other ways though...

cbasst 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

Dude needed some way to get off the show.

matzopacalypto 4 points5 points 5 months ago[-]

Yes! I also think this is possible.

Now this also occurred to me the other night when Flocke says that he wants to "go home" -- What if he's being kept there against his will ?

Like there seems to be a history of controlling him -- the circles of ash, the sonic fence. Whereas Jacob can come and go, and even bring people to the Island if he wants.

wedditfan 2 points3 points 5 months ago* [-]

Well this is the way I look at it and I've had the same thought that the M.I.B guy could be good.

here are just some examples

Kate: On the island she is very nice and caring, But in reality she is a fugitive running from the law.

Sawyer: On the island he finally falls in love with juliet and you get to see how good and sweet of a person he can really be, but in reality he breaks the hearts of every women he gets close to and kills a man who was innocent.

Sun: On the island between her and jin she always seemed like the nicer one out of the couple, but in reality she cheated on jin.

I could go on and on about all of the characters but pretty much it seems that our perspective of people on the island compared to what they really are is different.

So Jacob could very well be bad when the M.I.B. guy is good

philosarapter 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

Thats just the thing tho, Jacob was the one who brought them to the island and because of the island they became just better people. Jacob has hope for humanity, while his counterpart thinks that they are incapable of doing anything right.

Jacob loves all his children

KrystollMeth 2 points3 points 5 months ago[-]

It could be turned in any direction. I did a report in high school on paradise lost makig the devil out to be a freedom fighter for mankind. It's possible. I think it'll end like the dark tower books though myself

SmartAssery 2 points3 points 5 months ago[-]

I hope not. The Dark Tower series were good, but ending was less than satisfactory.

LaserAss 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

The DT ending was a huge letdown. I can't imagine them ending Lost like that. I just hope they end it in a way that will give answers to the big mysteries and make it very difficult to bring the show back in any other form.

meatpuppet13 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

something tells me they (the writers/producers) aren't going to let it be as cut and dry as 'good' and 'bad'.

ozreddit 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

I think he is what Jack would become (had he been stuck on the island for centuries... )

My theory is, similar to Desmond having to be replaced (to save the world) Jacob and Nemesis have to be replaced in order to leave the island. They are immortal and they are sick of it. He wants to go home to die. In order to go home, now that the electromagnetic thing has been nuked, you have to die.

It's going to be some sloppy, black and white, good vs evil thing in the end and considering the perceived "good" guy has been killed, allowing the perceived "bad guy" (Flocke) to go free and try and return home... you are probably right.

I really think that we should start stockpiling weapons now for when this ends and still doesn't make sense though.

oldtymelemonade 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

Does anyone else think this is possible?

I've posted it a couple of times. People were saying this after the finale last season, because it seemed so obvious to have good guy in white and bad guy in black... what if the roles were reversed.

Cservantes 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

Look at the span of Lost with the history of christianity from it's conception untill now....and then think about modern day and which one you'd rather follow, Jacob(religion/order) or Flocke(chaos).

Personally I'd rather follow Flocke's ideology even though I'm not a bad person in the least.

pace69 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

But doesnt he want to leave the island? I mean if that is true and he finally got HIS island back, wouldnt he want to stay?

philosarapter 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

Exactly, I think he was trapped on the island, which is why he was able to appear as the dead relatives of many of the losties, while jacob was off the island regularly bringing people there.